Children

Your chair shots are worth a million dollars. :-)

Their little souls got up out of the chair and walked away from this place - if only in spirit. Very moving image.

Amazing shot.

The mural on the wall makes me feel kind of sad somehow, the mural is of "normal" kids looking away from the viewer, I wonder if this picture became a torment to any of the children of Pennhurst.

Was the 'pit of oblivion' mural here too or was that somewhere else?

What should have been years filled with climbing trees,laughter,waiting for Santa Claus,amuesment parks and all the joy and sunlight in the world were spent in this horrid place.

the children on the inside could only envy the ones on the mural most of them never saw the outdoors during their time at pennhurst a sad commentary on state run facilities isnt it

The little childeren walked off the floor of the playground and into the wall, where they could remain at peace forever, far from the cruelty of the asylum guard. Heh, sorry, I'm a writer by trade, and a place like this must drive your imagination wild.

Has anybody noticed the girl in the wheelchair in the painting or is it just me? Kinda of weird maybe they were treaching these children that they werent so different from outsiders?

Good point, Mandie. It's interesting that so many people are upset about what happened in these places in the past (as they should be) but you don't see the same fervor to get folks with handicaps included in the mainstream today. It has only been in the past few years that you could see someone with a handicap of any sort included in advertisements (even something as simple as someone sitting in a wheelchair), and that is still quite rare. I would feel better about people's indignation about the "old days" if I knew that today they were involved in volunteer activities with folks with disabilities, that they made sure that people with disabilities were welcome in their communities, and that they made sure that children with disabilities of any sort were never ridiculed or left out in their schools.

It's good to point out how bad things used to be, but the pointing needs to include another hand *in the present* reaching out to include these folks.

[Ack! Sorry! This must be my "moral indignation" day! I need to jump down off my soapbox before someone pushes me off real hard! ]

IS that a wheelchair or is she riding one of those turn-of-the-century bicycles with the one giant wheel? Hard to tell amongst the cracking.

Interesting that it's "politically correct" images.

It looks like the release from suffering, walking away and just... disappearing.

The wheelchair girl I barely saw, as in, 'you are stuck here, barely a visible human in your wheelchair, while healthy children march on by, their backs to her' So creepy...

As someone who works every day with folks with severe disabilities, I must say people are projecting their own issues onto this picture. Personally I am always thankful to find a picture that includes a person who uses a wheelchair to get around, and I find it frankly bizarre that someone would assume this means the child who uses the wheelchair is getting left behind when in fact this is a picture of inclusion, something you most certainly do not see very often out in the "normal world" that everyone thinks is so very marvy and so non-restrictive. In the "real world" folks with handicaps get ignored for the most part and aren't even IN most pictures.

Guess if it's a picture in an institution it must automatically be evil, since all institutions are evil. Black and white. Right and wrong. Good and bad. Everything or nothing. Hang-dang those shades of gray because they make people think through the issues, and that seems to be a lot to ask.

I would not call this pic evil or depressing.Yes the Pit of Oblivion was but this picture is different from the other ones here as it seems to give hope.I wonder who painted all of these anyways?Was it the same artist?

"I must say people are projecting their own issues onto this picture"

Replace "this" with "these", add an "s" to picture, and apply it to the entire site, and you have a truth that applies to most, if not all of the user comments.

Judging by the clothes and the hairstyles (and the fact that it's politically correct) I'ld say this painting is no more than twenty years old. Thirty at the most.

State Schools frighten me even more than asylums do. Working at a residential facility, it's nothing more than a glorified state school. Sometimes I think snake pit characterizes my school better than it did Danvers!

The girl in the wheelchair...she looks so faded and alone...how she is placed behind the other children...

Ya know, you could look at this like it's great that she was the first one they painted and then they painted the other children afterward, so she was first on the artist's mind.

But then, it wouldn't sound like everyone who worked here sucked and the place sucked, would it? It would sound like the artist was open-minded and cared about people who use wheelchairs for transportation. So I guess we can rub out THAT particular explanation and look for one that describes the place as a true hellhole with no socially redeeming values at all and everyone who ever worked here as a sadistic maniac who hated people who use wheelchairs. That would certainly fit with people's fondest wishes and hopes, it seems. Geez, the first little girl is pretty faded too, but I don't see anyone getting all sentimental and pitiful about discrimination against Caucasian girls with black hair who wear red skirts and how she is placed "all alone" in front of the other children.

Look at YOUR biases, people, because a lot of y'all are surely projecting them here.

And that, my dear friends, was professional analysis totally free of charge. And worth every penny of it, to boot! :-)

This could easily be a simple painting that reminds the children that stayed there that no matter how different you feel, be it the colour of your skin, your age or a physical disability, everyone is created equal and they should never be made to feel inferior. Motts, i'd really like to know what the girl in the red skirt is pointing at...was their more to to the painting out of frame?

i love this series of photos. however, i don't think there's any deep meaning as to why the children are facing away. whoever painted the mural probably couldn't paint faces very well. i'm HORRIBLE at drawing arms/hands so whenever i draw a person, i usually have their arms behind their back...hahaha

just a thought...

to me this picture is positive to me it shows that in a place like this perhaps all these kids had was eachother... so reguardless of what was wrong with them they stood together as friend's looking off into the distance as if being together freed their spirit in some way ... am i thee only one who sees it this way ? email me at justicedreams24@aol.com let me know !!!

This is so disturbing! An older inmate had to have drawn these things--either that or someone working real hard to become an inmate. All of the paintings in this play room from hell are scary but this one is above and beyond all hope of reason.
First of all why are all the normal kids looking away from the viewer? Doesn't that seem strange?
Secondly why is the girl in the wheelchair hidden in the back and so very faded out? It's like she's a ghost. If someone else hadn't mentioned her I wouldn't have seen her.
Finally what the hell was wrong with the person who drew this? Look at the eyes, they are non-exsistant; just gaping black holes where the eyes should be.
Whoever painted these needed to get their head checked ASAP.
Those poor children in this room--I bet there was a high suicide rate among them as they got older.

I think what I see is, two adults, and three kids and one of the kids in wheelchair, walking toward the carnival that is depicted on the other wall, or same wall. It shows that even the girl in the wheelchair can have fun.

I don't know about you people. This clearly depicts a girl in a wheelchair picking the pocket of the black kid, who is stealing a wallet from a white kid, who is reaching to steal the pocket book from the girl who is picking her nose. As for the girl in red, she's a victim waiting to happen.

Now THAT'S an interpretation I can get behind! 8`-)

Ok...So I want to start out by saying that my best friend's uncle was born in Pennhurst...and her grandma took him in when this place was shut down. He just passed away recently but there are many stories I have heard from her that her uncle has told her. I would like to first say to Lynne that you work in a hospital now..not back in the time of Pennhurst. Back then they didnt know about dissabilities and they didnt treat them like human beings in all cases. Sure some places did..but other didnt. You need to first put yourself back in these times and realize that they werent as educated as we are now today about people with dissabilities.

Secondly..I would like to let you know that her uncle (after being released from Pennhurst) didnt know how to read, write, walk, eat, or even go to the bathroom on his own. I can tell you honestly that he learned all of that from her grandmother when he was released. He informed us about how he was mistreated and abused. And was even put in a isolation room, sitting in his own waste, on a few occasions.

Up to the time of his death he was still afraid of people's touch. When a person came into their house that he didnt know..he would cowar and fall silent because of the tourture of Pennhurst.

I agree with you Lynne...In the sense that, yes, in these years people dont mistreat their patients. But I would like you to start thinking of what it was like then. You have stood on your soapbox and compared it to your experiences but what you must realize is that your experiences are not back in the times of Pennhurst.. when people were still ignorant to the disabled.

I know for a fact that people were abused here..from my friend's uncle. I wasnt entirely sure until now...but now i know.. and I thought that maybe someone should step up on their soapbox and try to enlighten you a little bit...

Danny girl, I would have reposted to your comment earlier, but i had to get some stitches on my hand. For I am making a new soapbox for Lynne. You are so right..What does she know of the days of yore? Your slamming the wrong person kiddo. She knows her Stuff. If I was on my deathbed I would want her at my side. She has no control of how it use to be."according to your story from a friend of a friend". I know nothing of the goings in in these Hospitals, nor do I come here and slam someone that lives,eats,sleeps 25 hrs. a day for other people.She cares, more than any of us know. Can you imagine nights she wonders what more she could have done. In other peoples hearts they all know she truly did her best. All I want to ask of you, is to walk a mile in her shoes. "you cant handle the truth".

Well, actually I started in the field in 1972 when a lot of this WAS going on. I was 16 and started out as a volunteer in a day treatment center for emotionally disturbed pre-school children. I am really old. Kind of like dirt. :-)

I hope you haven't for one second read my comments to mean that there wasn't abuse back then and that there isn't abuse now. As in right now today. Both in large facilities and in the community.

My point is and has always been that people shouldn't make assumptions about what they have read or heard, because they'll never get all the info and because the info is slanted to whichever of us is relaying it to you - whether that's me or whether it's someone else. I am asking you to look at a lot of different people's experiences, remember that this was a different place and time, remember that we shouldn't be single-handedly blaming staff or families or the people who lived here or the doctors or the legislators but look at the culture that created and accepted this. That was all of us, including me. Don't judge yesterday's actions by today's standards. Don't assume that people always did what they did because there was a vendetta or personal dislike or there was ill intent.

Let me say it again - conditions were terrible at times in many of these places. In some places they were rotten. In some places they were horrible. However, the sad irony is that people who ran these places were well aware of it at the time and constantly asked for help (i.e., more money) but didn't get it. I can show you state publications from the 1950s with the states actually documenting and showing how bad their facilities were with full page photos of putting two children in one crib in a room full of 45 cribs, and 1/2 a dozen of the cribs had two children because there weren't enough beds. The facilities sent yearly reports to their legislatures showing how decayed the facilities were, how overcrowded they were, how little money they had for the basics, and still nothing happened until the courts got involved in the 1970s and forced the states to start putting money out for these people.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/docarelle/1955.jpg

So yes, bad things happened.

Let me say it again. Bad things happened. No one can deny it and no one wants to deny it.

But it seems that many folks are looking for someone to blame rather than trying to understand the whys and wherefores of what happened back then. Because what I am (apparently unsuccessfully) trying to impress on people is that we are three inches away from this happening again. Unless people understand how things got so screwed up in the first place, it can and will happen again.

But people need to stop pretending that the problems only occurred in another era and were the result of bad people rather than the result of a combination of bad circumstances. It was the result of bad systems and a culture with different priorities. As soon as the voters get a pinched belt they start voting against the type of programs that keep people at home and in the community where they belong, and push them back to (cheaper) congregate living facilities because that's what happens when budgets are tight and when people don't understand that you and I are the people who control the legislature that control the budget that dictates how these people will live.

I am saying let's quit chucking stones at the staff who worked here and start figuring this out so we can make life right for these folks. I don't think that's a lot to ask.

Lynne i would like to say that the staff is to blame...i understand you are a nurse or w.e but you werent a nurse here.. let me ask you if the staff isnt to blame then who is? what is there to figure out these people were abused and mistreated. Dannie Girl left a comment and that was my uncle she was talking about i know the story the staff is to balme they were the ones who treated him like that...i understand you dont treat your patients like that but not everyone is a caring "friend" like you not everyone is good and pure like you..

And this, my dear friends, is why helmets were developed.

Jodi, I am not "good" and I am surely not "pure" - I'm not even on the "cleaner" side of life, all sins being totaled and added together over the years. But I do try to look at everyone's life. Not just the people who lived here but the people who worked here and who kept these folks alive. If you aren't old enough yet to know what it's like to have a very low paying job, extremely long hours, a family to take care of, last minute mandatory overtime shifts, 25 to 50+ people to take care of by yourself who have skills at the 1 to 2 year developmental level plus massive behavioral "challenges," minimal support from professional or administrative staff, and a public who, like you, blames them for all the bad stuff that happened and doesn't think to thank them for showing up to do the work that many families were not capable of doing because they didn't also have the resources, then we'll have to wait a few years until you gain the life experiences that will help you understand why this might be a rather stressful job.

If I put you in a room today by yourself with 25 people who have severe to profound intellectual disabilities and ask you to make sure they are all kept clean, well dressed (or even make sure that each of them remains totally dressed for your entire shift), provide even just one meal (making sure the area is kept clean yet no gloves or cleaning solutions can be ingested, making sure the temperature of each food and beverage is in the correct range, follow everyone's eating precaution plans, make sure everyone is seated properly, their adaptive equipment for dining is available, and that their food texture is correct - i.e., pureed vs. ground vs. chopped vs. whole, making sure they all have the correct diet and the correct amount of food, possibly even having to assist people who receive their nutrition enterally), deal with seizures, deal with the multiple minor injuries that will occur because many of the folks don't have the ability to walk without falling, keep the area safe from those who ingest literally anything that is small enough to fit in their mouth, make sure that those who smear feces are cleaned up (because this sometimes occurs at this developmental level), keep apart those folks who don't like each other so they don't get into yet another fight, and then deal with the mounds of paperwork required to document that you have done all this work while keeping a cheerful face and all your patience, then you are certainly a better human being than I am or frankly than almost any person I have ever met.

Those were the conditions at the time. Them's the facts. And other than the fact that our staffing ratios are much better today, them's still the facts. You keep your head about you with all that going on and don't crumble from the strain (especially given that often the true ratio was more like 1 staff to 50 individuals) and I will personally ask the Pope to make you a living saint.

It's easy to criticize others if you haven't done their work. I personally thank God every day for the great majority of the staff I have the pleasure of working with, and I am 1000% positive if you ever got out there and saw what a very difficult job this is you would have just a little bit more empathy for the people who did this and kept your uncle alive so that you are now able to come here and condemn them.

I think that we all have biased opinions being that you are currently a staff worker.. therefore you look more into the lives of the staff.

We are biased in the fact that since Jodi's uncle was in this hospital and beaten..then we feel that it was the government and the staff's fault.

Its obvious we arent going to see eye to eye on this matter...there are too many emotions involved.

I see where you are coming from..but I also stand firm in my opinion.

I dont want to keep coming on here and fighting...So I say lets agree to disagree...

Since I have been one of those staff working in a room with 30-40 severely and profoundly retarded men at a state institution, I'd like to throw in my two cents. There are two sides to this story. Lynn, you seem to be speaking up for those staff who cared and tried to do the right thing. And Jodi and Dannie Girl, you seem to be speaking about cruel, even abusive staff. BOTH of these sides exist. In K Building, we had some staff who did their very best for the men they worked with. In my case, I used to take the most nervous, high-strung guys out for walks, so they'd have some peace and quiet and privacy. Other staff did similar things, because they cared. Yet I was openly mocked for taking people out and treating them as individuals. There were all kinds of cruelty in K Building, some perhaps unintentional, but others definately intentional. And if you dared to report even acts of open abuse, you were then targeted and lied about, thus weakening your believability, or even ruining your reputation. Time after time I saw staff transferred or even fired because they spoke up about cruelty. I grew up in Belchertown (the town) and when I went to work at K Building at Belchertown State School, two of my high school's worst bullies had graduated and found jobs at K Building. I also know, from personal experience, that management knew of abuse and looked the other way and rarely helped those brave enough to speak up. In fact, the only times I saw management take a strong stand was when a profoundly retarded woman in an all-female building became pregnant, and when another woman drowned in a bath-tub and staff who were supposed to be monitoring her ward dried her body off with a towel and put her in bed to make it look she had died in her sleep. Both of these situations were not the kind that would have been easy to cover up. These things DID and DO happen. Yes, there are good staff, but we need to know that there are also abusive staff; yes, there are abusive staff. but we also need to know there are good staff. I believe both sides in this discussion need to accept the reality of BOTH sides.

I'm curious as to why grandma didn't take him in after he was born at Pennhurst? Is it safe to assume that his parents were also retarded?

Listen I don't want to get into an argument but I'm just not understanding the uncle story. Some of the things you are discribing just aren't making alot of sense. Was this guy pretty old when he was "released" because if he had the ability to read and write I'm sure it would have been recognized at some point. They all went to school, the older ones probably attended on grounds the younger ones (when I worked there) off grounds. I saw many who were capable read and write. You have discribed this guy as being prfoundly retarded. I'd sure like to know how grandma changed this guy into what sounds like a mildly retarded person. Just curious.

Did I forget to write the part where I said there was abuse at these places? Did I forget to say that there were some awful things going on here? I must have forgotten to say that there was abuse at these places and some downright unattractive things going on here.

Hello, everyone. Guess what? I am going to clue you in on a little secret that I apparently have forgotten to mention here and everywhere else on this site where I have written. There was abuse at these places. Documented abuse. Photographed abuse. Tape recorded abuse. At this place and every other place out there. Including places in your neighborhood. Including this very week. No gasps of horror or outrage please, I can even prove it. I have even seen it.

Now, where were we?

Oh yes:

1. If society doesn't value certain people;
2. And they are sent away where no one can see them because they are of "less value";
3. And society doesn't pay much money for their care;
4. And they pay staff minimum wages to work with them;
5. And they make these staff work long hours and lots of mandatory overtime;
6. And if they don't have the technology to provide habilitative care (which wasn't even developed until the last 50 years);
7. And people treat the caretakers poorly because society doesn't value their charges (who were sent away due to their low value to society, mind you);
8. And the administration, being horribly overwhelmed with hideous amounts of overtime pay to keep the place running because no one wants to work there in the first place because of all the above factors, sometimes retains staff who are known to be abusive because otherwise there will be even fewer staff there (and they then end up between a rock and a hard place deciding whether to keep the abusive staff because otherwise, by firing the bad staff, the staffing ratios will then drop to 1 staff to 100 individuals);
9. And residing there are a large number of people with poor to minimal social skills who are at the developmental level where the highest rate of abuse occurs in the "normal" community;
10. And abuse occurs;
11. And you are shocked and blame it on the people who worked here with all this going on;
12. Then you are a knucklehead.

There were plenty of staff who worked here who did a lovely job under these circumstances. I don't hear anyone commending them, ironically. Everyone would rather poke at the staff who failed under such bad situations. But if you want to blame the people who were put in this situation and failed because they were human, you are missing the thing that will keep this from happening again.

And that is the real tragedy.

Not your individual story about the uncle. That is sad. That shouldn't have happened. It is a very bad thing that occurred.

But it will occur again and again and again until someone who votes starts to understand WHY it occurred. It occurred because we, the people, set up the horrible, terrible conditions under which many good people failed.

If you have a large facility that has adequate funding, a supportive administration, excellent technology, involved professionals, and well paid staff, the amount of abuse goes down to where it is significantly less than seen in the community. So that tells me that abuse is not inherent in people, it is inherent in bad conditions.

Did you know that when people are poor and hungry and have sick children and have few options they are more likely to steal? That's not a shocker, is it? So why is it a shocker to anyone that under bad situations staff are more prone to do bad things? Why chuck stones at the people who worked under these conditions and not the system and culture that engendered these situations?

I don't know. Maybe getting old enables people to see the wider side of life and circumstances. I was young once and things were a lot more black and white. But they were never so black and white that I didn't try to look at everything before I chucked a rock at it.

Staff who hurt people should not continue to work with them. Situations that engender abuse need to be fixed. But if you continue to insist that the evil lies only within the PERSON and not within the SYSTEM, you have condemned everyone else to the same fate as the uncle.

And that is a shame for the rest of the people out there that everyone claims to care about.

i am done talking here because you poeple have no idea

Lynne- I agree with everything you say here (and if you've said it a million times before, I haven't read those posts yet- I've read very few so far). All I was trying to say is that there is individual responsibility too: some slimy, hateful people were/are drawn to human services and act nastily all on their own, without "the State" having any responsibility about that... though it does have responsibility for much else. I know there are good staff (whom I did acknowledge in my previous opinion). By the way, after Belchertown closed down and the people who lived there had moved into the community, there were annual gatherings to celebrate the closing of BSS. Client after client after client would speak up (into microphones) telling their stories, none of which were very happy. And none of these people who had lived there ever spoke well of BSS. It's too bad that voices like theirs weren't heard more often on this site (or are they?)- they lived the experience that we, even if we worked there, can never truly comprehend, try as we might.

There are always people who care, and there are always people who do not. There is always at least two sides to an interaction.

I'm on no one's side, but I see both. some institutes would be worse than others. Some would start off great, but go down hill.

One factor was probably funding, which resultied in staffing, care, and a million other problems.

Plus, back then (and even now) sometimes 'retarded' people are disreguarded, and disliked.

Personally, I like this photo. Perhaps the artist wanted to give the children something to dream about, or imagine. Perhaps a caring staff emember paid the artist out of their own miniscule wages to have something happy in what they knew were bad conditions.

Maybe it showed there is good, happy things.

Or maybe it was installed to make the children yearn.

I doubt the latter, but still.

It is amazing what a simple photograph can instill in us.

oh, and was there any criminally insane here? Because abuse (intentional or unintentional) cna go two ways occasionally.

No one is perfect. And no one should expect anyone to be.

Accidents happen, even now, in hospitals. not that staff means to do it, but it happens. I should know. My dad got injected the wrong thing and almost died, but the crash team or whatever saved him.

It was no one's fault, the nurse immediatly got help, so no harm was done. I cannot remember if she was punished or not.

But there have been others who go out of their way to help patients.

So no one should be bad mouthing anyone. There is always bad apples, and maybe we should all concentrate on the good and not the bad.

At least that is from my opinion.

I wasn't even alive when this thing was open, I don't think anyway.

....

isabeats, the irony here is that I am actually very pro-community. I don't believe that the vast majority of people should ever have been in an institutional setting in the first place because the research (and my personal observation, which is obviously much smaller in scope and much more biased) tells me that in most cases they aren't the best places to help people develop to their fullest potential. That has to do with funding and the fact that you have to blindly rely on the fact that there will be someone to care about you as much as a member of your family might have.

However, the truth is that there were (and still are) a number of families who don't have the resources and/or the willingness to take care of family members with these types of severe disabilities. Therefore, we end up with a system where human care is brokeraged and some people actually expect that we can pay people to care about other people and keep them as safe as they would take care of a member of their own family.

There are some families with children with disabilities who keep their children at home who abuse their children because they are also short on resources, and I don't see as much concern over those folks harming their own children as I do the upset that I am hearing about total strangers who were ill-trained and paid poorly who hurt people. I think that is kind of weird, myself. If it happens in a person's own natural home, are we shocked it would happen where there are no blood ties?

But is it the families' fault here? Am I tossing bricks at Jodi's family for sending her uncle away and not taking care of him at home or not visiting him and asking whether he was doing well or whether he needed anything or observing how he interacted with staff? No, that wasn't done then. No one seems to catch that side of it either.

Everyone threw the problem in the air and expected the state to take care of everything, but few people ever got involved or helped support the places, either by visiting often, by getting involved, or by insisting that money came the way of these places.

So when that ended up causing a nightmare situation and we now see what we caused in our folly and we pick out the individual staff who were caught up in this nightmarish system and who failed and we poke them in the eye with a sharp stick, I am always a little surprised and saddened.

What do I think about people who harm people who have severe disabilities? I hate to admit it, but I never automatically condemn them without first trying to figure out why it happened. I make DAMN sure they are immediately away from the person they injured, but if it turns out there was a systems error, then it is my job to fix it to make sure it doesn't happen again. I work at the systems level because I am concerned about more than just Jodi's uncle. It was bad what happened to him, but I want to make sure there are no more people who are treated like Jodi's uncle, and I can't accomplish that if I get mired down in one case because there are a myriad of reasons why things like this occur. I am not simplistic enough to believe that there is only one factor at work here and that this factor is human evil.

Get rid of bad people. Yes. Do that immediately (IF the state allows you that luxury by the staff protection laws that are sometimes damned tricky to negotiate). Any time I see or suspect abuse or neglect I work and work and work until the situation is resolved. That has not always won me friends or helped me influence people positively, as I am sure you can personally attest. But don't for a minute believe that the evil was just in one person because then you are leaving all the other folks open to abuse because the system will be just as bad if you don't get to the ROOT of the problem.

I say, kill all the cockroaches you see. That is a good thing. But if you don't get to the heart of the problem and kill them where they are hiding and breeding, all you've gotten rid of is one cockroach. I would rather see the whole nest taken out. A proactive stance is ALWAYS more effective than a reactive stance.

As regards peoples' personal experiences who lived at the different facilities, I have worked at 5 different facilities and I have seen and heard all manner of opinions from people after they have left. Some folks loved it, some hated it, some were neutral. I have found that if the group gets together and someone starts to speak up pro or con, the group tends to go along with whichever view is stated because the truth is that there was both good and bad at these places. I think, however, that if you get a group of people who did not live in large facilities and get them all together to talk about their childhood and their lives and the towns and families they grew up in, you'll also find a lot of positive and negative. That's part and parcel of being human. Some homes and families were great and some really sucked.

I do think everyone should grow up in their own home and with their own family, assuming the resources are there and they are treated well. But I don't get to make that choice. I just try to deal with it after the families and state and systems have made that choice, and I try to make a difference in the systems and the state so that more people can live at home and so that the families have the resources they need and so the people who live in the facility where I work are safe and get everything they need as long as they live there. I also come to sites like this and try to provide information about what these places were like and are like, both the good side and the bad side. That may be a very small piece of the universe, but at this point it's as far as I can stretch myself.

Sam, you are cuter than a speckle-eyed puppy. I really like you. I know you think that people automatically write off younger people, but when they show such uncommon good sense and compassion as you show, it's always a delight.

The point is Lynne...we are all reading your posts and we know that the staff isnt all to blame in some buildings. Ok? We get it...enough with the rants. We know about how you said the places are bad....and some places are good...thats what we are all saying. Every one of us is arguing over the same thing... We are all saying that this place was bad, and some places today are bad, But there are still wonderful people working in these places. We all agree with both sides...So therefore...Why are we fighting? It doesnt make sense. I think that we're wasting time, and fighting for no reason. So then, lets stop.

Well, actually I was writing to isabeats, but if you want to hop in, feel free. :-)

Lynne- I agree with everything you've said. (I've worked in Human Services for 27 years). And Dannie Girl, you're completely right. It's true: we're all really saying the same thing. I'm new here and I don't want to start off on the wrong foot with anyone, and then one day find myself the subject of a poll: Should We Get Rid Of Isabeats?, ha ha ha.

Noway...keep Isabeats!! haha....Yay we are all friends... lol

I am sooo addicted to this site now...Its interesting to learn about the other abandoned places too..

So I was wondering...Have any of you been to the main Pennhurst page and read the quote? You should click on the link and read this man Ronald's story. Its really sad.

Danielle thanks your right we are all fighting over the same thing and i understand there are good people and bad people in this world...

lynne thanks for using some effort in your writing even tho they may be rants to show me that we are all fighting over the same thing...

Aww..thanks lynne..

=) you made me blush haha

nice pictures man it realley shows how that wall art can be like a bad acid trip

All psychoanalysis aside, this mural is still creepy for one reason. It's like that famous "man from apes" illustration, but in reverse. That one starts out with the hunched over little monkey that gradually develops into an upright modern human. This mural starts with the tall upright boy and then regresses down to the short hunched over children. I'm sure it wasn't the artist's intention, but it just seemed strange to see a sort of downward regression if you "read" the painting from left to right. With that said though, the girl in the (possible) wheelchair seems to preceed the tallest boy. Perhaps an unconcious statement that the disabled children are more human than the "normal" humans which seem to be regressing down to the level of dumb beasts again? Probably not, but it sounds all Freudian and fun. I never liked Freud though so you should now pretend I never even mentioned him. Okay, carry on with your day...

lol...very nice Keith. It took me a minute to really understand what you were talking about..but if you look at it and keep in mind what you said, it kinda makes sense.

Well, we weren't THERE, so we don't really know the facts; only what was reported, printed, or talked about. I've read alot on institutions from many years ago and I still think they did not fully understand, at that time, what they were dealing with so with each individual person, they just did the best they could. I know there were many cruel care-givers but like-wise, there's always some very loving people, even today. I just would like to know; what happened to all these children? Did they just grow-up and go out on their own, or what? With the way the world is today, it would really be disastrious to put someone on the street and only add to his or her problems. My brother was in a mental hospital, near Pennhurst, and when he was released; which by the way I didn't think he was ready; he was told to make sure he took his medicine. If he didn't, which alot of times was true, he would hallucinate. He wound-up right back where he started. And that was about 20 years ago. He died quite young, never really having a normal or full life.

Again...I didn't read past the first half of the posts. People are repeating themselves and not focusing on what the real topic here is: THE PHOTOGRAPH. =[

Jamara,

Please see below all comments:

" Memories and stories from past employees, visitors or patients are gratefully welcomed, they help keep these places alive!" Also please note about flaming. Thank you for your consideration of the site rules.

Why does the one kid have his hand on the other's butt?

you are talking like some very sophisticated persons here :D and I come and ruin it all.. HAHA!
So: I want to know.. Is that dark boy holding his hand on the white boys arse?

Ive Been In This Room With My Father very Moving Picture.That Room is so Depressing.

A very deep shot, easily my favorite picture in this gallery... very empty yet full of meaning.

Lynn, I appreciate the fact that you think you are arguing from a standpoint that honors the grey area in these situations.
However, (having worked and been a patient at multiple facilities) I have a problem with a few of your arguments.
Staff working in the mental health are underpaid. Many of them must work overtime. Most of them have lives and families outside of work, and the stress that accompanies these lives. It is also very difficult to keep up with specific treatment plans/special needs etc... when you are in charge of multiple patients.
However, there is a major difference between the plight of mental health workers and the plight of patients; I feel as if sometimes you do not recognize this (in fact, you seem to use the plight of workers as a justification for bad actions/decisions/abuse).
One of the major differences between staff and patients is that staff CHOOSE to work in the psychiatric field; Patients do not always choose to be hospitallized. If a staff member does not like the conditions of the job, they have a choice to leave and seek other employment. Hell, they could work at McDonald and recieve the same rate they were making working on a unit or at a residential program. There is no need for them to subject themselves indefinately to a job that is too stressful.
The patients can not leave. If they don't like conditions on a hospital unit, they have few options.
Staff are supposidly sane, functioning members of society. Patients are not necessarily in control of their behavior. Staff can choose, to the best of their abillities, how to act/react to situations reguarding patient care.

You're right. I am a schmuck. I gotta be me. :-)

tried and Lynne, I think you BOTH offer many vaiid points. I wish we could stop all of the arguing, esp. when it gets kind of personal & hurtful, no (?). Both of you seem sincere and this is such a delicate subject, will the system ever be the ideal place for those needing help, probably not. Sad but true. I just wish the fights wouldn't get so personal here. Of course we wish the best for those who are ill, hurting, and in need *and* also for those who struggle to take care of them. I pray that a facility would never knowingly hire a neglectful or abusive worker as well, but...
I don't know, said my bit. Sorry. I should not have gotten in the middle I am sure..

These things get personal because some people are passionate about what they do. Lynne (That’s LynnE… it ends with an “E”) has been a mental health professional for over 30 years now and does have an idea about what she is talking about.

Tried has had a few bad experiences and suddenly all mental health employees should go work at McDonalds because the pay is the same. Right… that’s a plan that will make the world a better place…

Having lurked for, yikes...years and having read pretty much everything on the site, I find Lynne's postings to hugely informative. I read 'em all. I admire her tenacity in the face of the pervasive (shame, really) tendency to assume the worst and react viscerally. Yes, it's human to react so but it's also wise to gain an understanding of the entire picture before letting the ol' knee-jerk.

I realise that some folks quite enjoy being spooked and scared and "creeped out" whilst others seem to almost romaticise the darker side of humanity. I tend to accept its existence, that it does exist and do whatever I can to counter that darkness and encourage light.

Might be my age here (like Lynne...dirt came after me) but I've learned to look at the entirety of an issue. Lynne has said it far better than I ever could and she's spot on with respect to *US* bearing a great deal of responsibility for some of these issues. Funding matters hugely. And with sufficient funding, those who would abuse and denigrate could be replaced so fast their heads would swim.

I'm an American who now lives in a European country and some of the differences I see with respect to health care in general and care for the disabled (mentally/physically) and the *attitude* is astounding. There is a sense here of responsibility for caring for those who do not have what "we" do and I am quite glad to see that.

Good on ya, Lynne and all the others who do that which so many of us could not begin to do. And keep on "preaching" because there are entirely too many who still aren't hearing.

DAH

Well said Orchid Lunar

this painting resembles the previous wheelchair notice its the same wheelchair with the little girl in it crazy huh

I wonder how people would interpret the mural if they knew nothing about its location or context. As Lynne pointed out (nearly three years ago - sorry, I only recently found the site) people project their own issues into the piece because they have a pre-formed idea of Pennhurst. It would be interesting to read reactions and interpretations from people who have nothing but the photo to look at.

In any context, a mural such as this seems sad and aspirational. How were those kids supposed to connect with this image? It seems cruelly mocking to surround those who suffer with idealized imagos.

This is for Lynne if she is still around..

Could you please e-mail me @ celticrose1976_28@hotmail.com

I'd like to discuss volunteer opportunities for those of us who have a mental illness( medication compliant and getting stabilized).

Thanks

Mags

Wheres Wally

dosnt it luk like da boy on da end is touchin da boy n frnt of hims butt

chairs to sit on or waiting to come back 4 1day. . .

Ackk, settle down, we've all of us got poor Lynne working unpaid overtime!

I am sorry but for a sec at 12:30 thought you took a pic of like creepy dead children!!!

Whats the "pit of oblivion" ???

One other thing before my parents find my laptop... there are wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to many rants about stuff that goes wayyyyyyyyyyyyy off the pic...

just saying...

These things just passing the years, in the dark and damp....
(Cue theramin!)

They're all facing away ..?

It would seem like a nice place if it wasn't so harsh!