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[AuntMaymeMommy]

He isn't really associated with that story other than he said he was a polygamist.  He is really a nice guy.  He has always seemed to be very tenderhearted to me.  They both seemed to be perfectly content.  So, I guess if they aren't being forced and they aren't bothering anybody else, it's their business.  on a little side note, going off his looks he would definately not have any trouble attracting women. 

[Cristina]

I just found this story. Is you friend Morman? Or just a lifestyle choice?
SALT LAKE CITY - The neighbors knew Anne Wilde as a divorcee with three children, but she had a secret: She was married to a polygamist, a man who divided his time among his various wives, visiting her once a week at her house in the suburbs.

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"We'd play games — he'd park his car at a grocery-store lot and I'd pick him up" so that other people wouldn't see his vehicle parked in front of her home overnight, said Wilde, now a 72-year-old grandmother whose husband died five years ago.

The neighbors had their suspicions, but they never questioned her.

While the raid on the West Texas sect earlier this month has focused attention on polygamists who live in communal fashion and dress like 19th-century pioneers, many polygamists are very much part of the modern world, and live right next door in cities, suburbs and small towns across the West.

At least 37,000 men, women and children live in polygamous families from Canada to Mexico, with most of them in Utah, according to Wilde, who has become an activist for plural marriage. Law enforcement agencies do not dispute her figures.

While some men in rural Utah build large barracks-style houses with separate entrances to accommodate multiple wives, many of the state's polygamists are unattached to any particular sect or clan and live almost invisibly, under rather conventional-looking circumstances.

Each wife gets her own house; the men sneak around, often without a home to call their own. Mothers hold themselves out as single parents to PTA or school officials if they have to explain. But that is not usually a problem in a state where many lifelong residents can trace polygamy in the family tree, and where law enforcement authorities rarely prosecute the offense.

Carlene Cannon, a 37-year-old homemaker who lives in the Salt Lake City area, talks about polygamy without actually uttering the word, referring to it as her "lifestyle choice."

"I'm in a very committed relationship, that's what I tell people," she said. If pressed, she will add that she is not legally married. "In today's society, you don't really need to explain how it works, because there's so many single mothers," she said.

Sometimes the truth comes out. Garrett Kelsch grew up outside Park City in one of two nearby households kept by his polygamous father. As a high school freshman, he tried to keep the family's secret from his new classmates. One thing or two gave him away.

Kelsch, now a 34-year-old manager of a door-manufacturing shop, said he had a half-brother of the same age in the same class. "At first the others thought we were cousins," he said, "but they eventually asked about polygamy and we said, `Yeah.'"

Kelsch said he never actively concealed his father's polygamy, but "we weren't going to advertise it."

Wilde and just about all other practitioners of plural marriage in the West consider themselves followers of the true Mormon faith. But the mainstream Mormon church renounced polygamy more than a century ago and strongly disavows any connection to them.

Many of Utah's polygamists draw a sharp distinction between themselves and the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the polygamous sect raided by Texas authorities earlier this month because of allegations of physical and sexual abuse. By Wilde's estimate, about 15,000 of Utah's polygamists belong to no group at all.

According to law enforcement authorities in Utah and Arizona, many other polygamists are divided among about 11 communities, societies or orders, though Wilde said some of those groups have faded away, have few members or lack religious legitimacy.

Most Utah women in polygamous marriages are indistinguishable from other women. They take jobs or work from home to help support their families. Wilde, for example, helped run a Mormon publishing house from her home. They don't wear prairie dresses or put their hair in braids or a bun, the style consistent among FLDS women.

In black dress pants and a white blouse with a charcoal-colored jacket, Heidi Foster looks like any other 36-year-old suburban Salt Lake City mom, albeit with 10 children in her home. The youngsters' father is an occasional visitor who acknowledges another woman as his only legal wife.

Foster belongs to the Kingston clan, a 1,500-member group based in the Salt Lake City area but scattered across the Intermountain West. The group has legitimate and widespread business interests worth an estimated $150 million by some published reports, including pawn shops, a trash collection company, dairies and coal mines.

Polygamist John Daniel Kingston — Foster is careful not to call him her husband — helps support her family.

Court papers from a custody battle involving two of their rebellious teenage daughters say Kingston has at least a dozen other wives. When asked about it, Kingston has invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. He is believed to have more than 100 children.

Even outside the FLDS, women in polygamous relationships tend to marry young — around 17, according to research conducted at the University of Utah. The men usually wait 10 years after a first marriage to start accumulating more wives.

In the cities and suburbs, the polygamist husbands are usually nomads, said Irwin Altman, a psychology professor at the University of Utah.

"Typically, the guy doesn't have his own place. His clothes are spread all over. For privacy, some said they had to take a drive in their car," said Altman, co-author of the 1996 book "Polygamous Families in Contemporary Society."

Altman found that the men earnestly cling to early Mormon beliefs that polygamy is key to eternal salvation.

[AuntMaymeMommy]

I believe it to be a lifestyle choice.

[Lynne]

In the cities and suburbs, the polygamist husbands are usually nomads, said Irwin Altman, a psychology professor at the University of Utah.

"Typically, the guy doesn't have his own place. His clothes are spread all over. For privacy, some said they had to take a drive in their car," said Altman, co-author of the 1996 book "Polygamous Families in Contemporary Society."

Altman found that the men earnestly cling to early Mormon beliefs that polygamy is key to eternal salvation.

Wow!  Irv Altman!  He was the chair of the department when I went to the U of U about 200 years ago!  Can't believe he's still there.

Yes, I spent many a year in Utah and am familiar with polygamy.  I think they estimate that 2 to 3% of the population of the state is polygamous, currently.  I did some testing many years ago in Escalante, Utah, and of the 2,000 people who lived there, almost every one of them were descended from only 3 families.   

[C-Note]

I really don't understand the point of polygamy in the first place, well in modern times at least. From what I understand in the older and ancient times, even in 3rd world countries that polygamy is a lifestyle based of survival needs for families. But the husband/sire would stay with his wives in the same dwelling. It seems with the men today skipping around from the wives's home to home, and having a budget to provide these things as well as the wives providing too. It seems that is the survival of the man's virility and libido that is the fuel behind this in my personal opinion. Especially with the major age differences and incest on top of it. I find in the fortifications that our country provides for families here, there is no need for the ancient survival needs of polygamists of today need to use on top of using religion as an excuse.

[everyhumandies]

I believe it to be a lifestyle choice.

Yeah, until little girls get grown and raised for the purpose of becoming the wives men 20 or 30 years older than they are ( since they are 14, 15, etc) and who are sometimes related. That's twisted religious BS, and should not be condoned or allowed, IMO.

[Navi]

Yeah, until little girls get grown and raised for the purpose of becoming the wives men 20 or 30 years older than they are ( since they are 14, 15, etc) and who are sometimes related. That's twisted religious BS, and should not be condoned or allowed, IMO.

Well, I'm not too sure about the actual context of AMM's friend here, but most people who adopt an "alternative lifestyle" such as a polyamorous relationship are far, far removed from people who claim polygamy is a religious behavior. In fact, I don't think I've really heard much (in this country) about polygamy as a religious way of life for anyone but the so-called "fundamentalist" Mormons.

I think we can all agree that consenting adults being allowed to participate in a "different" kind of relationship is definitely not the same thing, and doesn't necessarily amount to, that one situation that's been going on out west.

[Lynne]

Actually, the indoctrination begins at birth.  There are lots of people in certain parts of the US who wholeheartedly believe, as they have been raised to believe, that it is the duty of all women to become "sister wives" in a large, communal family.  The difficult thing here is to tell any of us who have been raised from birth to believe that something is true, that it is actually not true and is, in fact, supposed to be nasty instead. 

Many of you on this list are Christians.  If all the sudden you were told that you were raised by psychotic sickos and that all Christianity is to be despised because it is wrong and bad and evil and that your parents and families and church are wrong and the wellspring of deceit and lies, I am not thinking that many of you are going to go along with this very happily, if at all.  As a matter of fact, many Christians would find this a good reason to become a literal martyr and "die for the cause," right?

That is the same thing that is happening here.  These people have always believed that polygamy is the "natural" and "religiously correct" way of life, and they think we are a bunch of devil-worshipping sinners who are trying to lead them from the True Path to Salvation by our damnable limitations and pagan beliefs.

If the main concern is that sexual relations begin before a specific age limit (who decides what that is?), then many of us might have fallen into that category, and willingly. Throughout the history of this planet most people have started engaging in sexual activity before the age of what we now call consent, so we have some cultural issues about what is the age of consent. 

If it's because children are indoctrinated to believe something, then we are all guilty, because all parents and all religions and all countries try to indoctrinate and teach children to think a certain way.

To say that I am anti-polygamy is a bit of an understatement.  However, I am going to have a difficult time trying to rationalize why I feel that way other than sheer emotionalism. 

[~Me]

The question of polygamy is an interesting one in that most people today view polygamy as immoral while the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns polygamy. The first instance of polygamy/bigamy in the Bible was Lamech in Genesis 4:19, “Lamech married two women…” Several prominent men in the Old Testament were polygamists. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. In 2 Samuel 12:8, God, speaking through the prophet Nathan, that if David’s wives and concubines were not enough, He would have given David even more. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (essentially wives of a lower status) according to 1 Kings 11:3. What are we to do with these instances of polygamy in the Old Testament? There are three questions that need to be answered.

(1) Why did God allow polygamy in the Old Testament?

The Bible does not specifically say why God allowed polygamy. The best anyone can do is “informed” speculation. There are a few key items to consider. First, there has always been more women in the world than men. Current statistics show that approximately 50.5% of the world population are women, with men being 49.5%. Assuming the same percentages in ancient times, and multiplied by millions of people, there would be tens of thousands more women than men. Second, warfare in ancient times was especially brutal, with an incredibly high rate of fatality. This would have resulted in an even greater percentage of women to men. Third, due to the patriarchal societies, it was nearly impossible for an unmarried woman to provide for herself. Women were often uneducated and untrained. Women relied on their fathers, brothers, and husbands for provision and protection. Unmarried women were often subjected to prostitution and slavery. Fourth, the significant difference between the number of women and men would have left many, many women in an undesirable (to say the least) situation.

So, it seems that God allowed polygamy to protect and provide for the women who could not find a husband otherwise. A man would take multiple wives, and serve as the provider and protector of all of them. While definitely not ideal, living in a polygamist household was far better than the alternatives: prostitution, slavery, starvation, etc. In addition to the protection / provision factor, polygamy enabled a much faster expansion of humanity, fulfilling God’s command to “be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth” (Genesis 9:7). Men are capable of impregnating multiple women in the same time period…causing humanity to grow much faster than if each man was only able to produce one child each year.

(2) How does God view polygamy today?

 Even in the midst of the allowance of polygamy, the Bible presents monogamy as most conforming to God’s ideal for marriage. The Bible says that God’s original intention was for one man to be married to only one woman, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife (not wives); and they shall become one flesh (not multiple fleshes)” (Genesis 2:24). While Genesis 2:24 is speaking more towards what marriage is, than how many people are involved, the consistent use of the singular should be noted. In Deuteronomy 17:14-20, God commands that the kings were not supposed to multiply wives (or horses or gold). While this cannot be interpreted as a command that the kings must be monogamous, it can be understood as declaring the having multiple wives causes problems. This can be clearly seen in the life of Solomon (1 Kings 11:3-4).

In the New Testament, 1 Timothy 3:2, 12 and Titus 1:6 give “the husband of one wife” in a list of qualifications for spiritual leadership. There is some debate as to what specifically this qualification means. The phrase could literally be translated “one woman man.” Whether or not this phrase is specifically referring exclusively to polygamy, in no sense can a polygamist be considered a “one woman man.” While these qualifications are only specifically for positions of spiritual leadership, they should apply equally to all Christians. Should not all Christians be “above reproach ... temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money” (1 Timothy 3:2-4)? If we are called to be holy (1 Peter 1:16), and if these standards are holy for elders and deacons, then they are holy for all.

Ephesians 5:22-33, speaking of the relationship between husbands and wives, when referring to a husband (singular) always also refers to a wife (singular). “…for the husband is the head of the wife (singular) … He who loves his wife (singular) loves himself. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife (singular), and the two will become one flesh … each one of you also must love his wife (singular) as he loves himself, and the wife (singular) must respect her husband (singular).” While a somewhat parallel passage, Colossians 3:18-19, refers to husbands and wives in the plural; it is clear that Paul is addressing all the husbands and wives among the Colossian believers, not stating that a husband might have multiple wives. In contrast, Ephesians 5:22-33 is specifically describing the marital relationship. If polygamy is allowable, the entire illustration of Christ’s relationship with His body (the church), and the husband-wife relationship, falls apart.

(3) Why did it change?

 It is not as much God disallowing something He previously allowed as it is God restoring marriage to His original intent. Even going back to Adam and Eve (not Eves), polygamy was not God’s original intent. God seems to have allowed polygamy to solve a problem…but it was God’s desire for the problem never to have occurred. In most modern societies, there is absolutely no need for polygamy. In most cultures today, women are able to provide for and protect themselves – removing the only “positive” aspect of polygamy. Further, most modern nations outlaw polygamy. According to Romans 13:1-7, we are to obey the laws that the government establishes. The only instance in which disobeying the law is permitted by Scripture is if the law contradicts God’s commands (Acts 5:29). Since God only allows for polygamy, and does not command it, a law prohibiting polygamy should be upheld.

Are there some instances in which the allowance for polygamy would still apply today? Perhaps…but it is unfathomable that there would be no other possible solution. Due to the “one flesh” aspect of marriage, the need for oneness and harmony in marriage, and the lack of any real need for polygamy – it is our firm belief that polygamy does not honor God and is not His design for marriage.

[C-Note]

Thank you ~Me for putting that in such an open perspective. In my perspective of how this polygamy thing doesn't sit well with me is the major decades difference between the husband and wife and also the men going in and out of the different houses of his wives is rather wrong to me. As I remember reading, Jacob had Leah and Rachel in one household, how should it be any different than them?

[AuntMaymeMommy]

I was a little shocked to say the least, but I do not believe my friend has any underage wives.  I cannot invision him as being mean or controlling either.  Of course things may have changed with him but I have always known him to be a very tender hearted and gentle person.  His wife that was with him seemed very happy.  She was a woman in her thirties.  It was at a social function and she was off talking with people and dancing.  He was doing the same.  I don't think it was a religious thing for him, I think it is a lifestyle he chose.  It also didn't seem to be one that he was hiding.  She also mentioned having other husbands.  Thinking about it more I think it is closer to swinging than religious polygamy except there is more of a relationship between all of the people involved than typical swingers. I've known a few people who were swingers and they seemed to not have a deep relationship with the people with which they swapped.  They were sometimes friends though but did not consider themselves more than friends who exchanged partners.  My friend seems to be more deeply attached to his "wives" and them thier "husbands".  He is also not the only one with multiple spouses.  I don't really agree with it, or with swinging, but I'm not going to put him down because of it either.  Unless of course he starts having underage wives or wives against thier will.  In that case he will become a low life no good bastard.