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[JohnBlack]

The following represents my personal opinions - I'm am not a professional on any level with this subject:

Always a sticky topic. Everyone might believe my thoughts on the topic are contradictory but here it goes:

Everyone has the right to choose to die.  I believe that living wills are a good thing (actions to take in the event of coma or other extreme incapacitation which removes the persons ability to make decisions on their own care.  The wills can be set up to stipulate, for instance, how long someone can remain in coma until the machines are turned off). I do not see keeping someone alive who is living in perpetual horrendous agony simply because today we have machines that can do so.

At the current time our technological ability to prolong life exceeds our ability to preserve quality of life.

Having said that - here is my contrasting opinion that I simultaneously hold and that may be seen by some as a conflict with the above.  I do not believe sadness, grief or even depression (clinical or otherwise) are valid reasons to commit suicide. These examples are mostly transitory in nature and at the very least are certainly treatable - they are not (usually) permanent conditions such as brain cancer or ALS.   Further I strongly believe that people attempting to commit suicide under such conditions (grief, depression, etc) should be prevented if possible from suicide.  It is my understanding that such declarations of intent are often, the proverbial 'cry for help'.  They're looking for someone to express care in their direction.

Isn't everyone entitled to get help if they need it?

Zwheels - if you're posting this question you must think he's the real deal and not just some form of attention seeker. He's sharing these thoughts with you - may I ask - How do you respond?  What do you say?  Since this is totally anonymous can you say why he feel this depressed - is it more than just loneliness? Did he lose someone?  Is he facing some personal health crisis?

[Zwheels]

don't really know about his health other than he said he has "health problems".
i did say i belive everyone has the right, just being human gives you the right if
 it does not hurt another person to end ones life. he said to me yesterday "if you have nothing left to look forward to in life but being sick old and broke. no family to help you no one to love you hell i an't that loveble anyway. damn i'l be living on the streets homeless broke and dieing from the heat or the freezing cold. yeah ending it now seams a mighty smart thing."... tonight a policeman was looking over his car. he's in his apt cuz i could hear him yelling.

[Kitten7]

Well, what can I say to that JohnBlack?  Nothing I guess..

[Kitten7]

Do the ones who have a "successful" suicide enjoy their "cry for help" being heard?

[Memeki]

that's just the thing though kitten- those who are "crying for help" seldom ever actually do it. that's what I've observed anyway. I have pulled so many people out of suicide that it's not even a joke. (myself included) out of all those, I'd say about one or two was really actually going to do it. the scary thing is, it's hard to tell who's serious and who's not. that's why I tend to not take certain people's threats of suicide seriously, but then again sometimes I feel like its my responsibility to jump in there. there's so many answers to these questions, so many opinions too... I think this is one of the most tricky topics I've faced on here.

[JohnBlack]

Do the ones who have a "successful" suicide enjoy their "cry for help" being heard?

I believe there is a fantasy element in many cases where the suicidee visualizes how everyone will feel guilty for their behavior towards the person committing suicide.  I doubt that there are many people who are thinking about suicide who don't try to envision what other peoples reactions will be.

At the point that they are telling others they are ready to commit suicide and are serious about it - they'll enjoy any attention they can get or at the very least any attention they can get is feeding a 'need' of some sort.

Again, I have to add the disclaimer that I'm not a professional and these are my personal opinions.

[JohnBlack]

that's just the thing though kitten- those who are "crying for help" seldom ever actually do it. that's what I've observed anyway. I have pulled so many people out of suicide that it's not even a joke. (myself included) out of all those, I'd say about one or two was really actually going to do it. the scary thing is, it's hard to tell who's serious and who's not. that's why I tend to not take certain people's threats of suicide seriously, but then again sometimes I feel like its my responsibility to jump in there. there's so many answers to these questions, so many opinions too... I think this is one of the most tricky topics I've faced on here.

I agree with part of the above.

I respectfuly disagree that those who are crying for help seldom ever do it.  I believe that in most cases of a completed suicide there is often some discussion or talk of the topic ahead of time.  What can be deceptive though is that once someone transitions from the fantasy to being committed to doing it for real there is often temporary improvement in the persons demeanor/behavior - this is because they begin to see suicide as a solution.

In other words, they may talk about it ahead of time but there is (often - not always) a lull in the storm just prior to the event.

I agree its really hard to tell who is serious and who is not.  Exacerbating the problem is the fact that there are a lot of people who seem to think its 'cool' to be crazy/mentall ill.  Then add to this that we've had two generations of parents that decided to over-medicate their children for supposed hyperactivity or ADD.  I think drugs such as ritalin were way over-prescribed.

I'll make a bold statement and say that a lot of ritalin prescription was for the convenience of the parents rather than the health of the child.  I believe it has since been determined that there is an increased incidence of suicide among people who are prescribed ritalin type medications.  I will of course defer to Lynne or any of the other healthcare pro's if they disagree with any of the above.

[Lyric]

When discussing things like suicide, we do tread into very rough waters.  Both socially and religiously.
This makes it harder and harder to say WHO is right.

I may be alone in saying that I am a firm believer in Doctor Assisted Suicide.  Or rather..  Adult Euthanasia.  I happen to personally think that Dr. K. was a man ahead of his time for the US and yet, right on par with a portion of Europe.

There are some big statistics on suicide out there.  So many, that they have it broken down by method and which gender follows which method more.
If you look, you can even find the 'reasons' left behind in notes, and sadly...  Most of their "reasoning' is transitional depression.
Transitional Depression (I know it's not the technical term, but it fits), is 100% treatable.  How do I know?  If it weren't, I'd have died from my first broken heart a LOOOONG time ago.

If it's clinical depression-  it's still highly treatable, but, as we have already learned, treatment works only if the patient is 100% vested into their progress.   (And I mean real treatment, not just better living through chemistry)

Unfortunatly, the current EMO sub-culture (please don't call it Goth.. it's not), has odd fascinations with suicide more so than the Goth Subculture ever did.  (as a Goth growing up.. I was more fascinated by Who was in the graveyard than I was about how to get in myself).  For the current sub-culture, their "Gag me with a spoon" catch phrase is sadly "I'm gonna kill myself".
Not to mention, in their own spoiled rotten lives, they are convinced that unless mommmy and daddy give them their new Wii or xBox 900(or whatever) that their lives aren't worth living. 
This subculture makes it VERY difficult for suicide workers even regular people on the street to differentiate between the real talkers and catch phrase.
It's more like "the Boy calling wolf".


After working as a paramedic, I can tell you that the ones who mean it, will rarely talk about it.  They may mention something, but once they have made up their mind.  It's done.
Then, the ones who attempt... Make the action as a 'cry for help', rather than talking about it.  By swallowing a handfull of their allergy medication.

We had running jokes as paramedics that we out to teach a How to Commit Suicide Class.


I can tell you how I personally feel about suicide, (and I have).  It's selfish, and in that selfishness, it's wrong. 
We all have choices in life, and in those choices, you determine your path.  If you CHOOOSE to make yourself unhappy, unloveable, lonely, unfriended and so on.. that is your CHOICE..  Nobody twisted your arm to get you there, no one held a gun to your head and demanded to 'behave like a complete dick".

The best part about choices, is that even if you can't unmake them, you can break the pattern of choice, in breaking that pattern, you can CHOOSE to not 'behave like a complete dick", and you can make yourself available to be friendly and emotionally available to people.


AND... if JB, is right, and you are fantasizing what the world would do without out..  Just ask someone.

[J-131274]

Suicide - A permanent solution to a temporary problem. 

[Zwheels]

as of this morning... lots of noise woke me up the police and firemen wher next door. i'm not shure what happend the police took my nieghber out in hand cuffs.
 and there is yellow police tape on the door to his apt. is this what happens if they find out your suicidel ? they haul you away in handcuffs slam you on to the back of the police car and force you in the back seat.

[Lyric]

No, but that can be what happens if they are pushing to send him in for a (california penal code)5150.  Which means, it's seen that he is a danger to himself and/or others.
However, they don't crime scene tape a door for NOTHING

[Barbara]

In a sense I do agree with the "assisted suicide" for extreme cases, such as 90-year-old person who can do nothing but lie in a bed all day, they can't eat except through a feeding tube, they can't talk and they have dementia, etc.  In that instance you know things aren't going to get better and its just a matter of time. 

Someone who is lonely and feels they have no friends or maybe perhaps, as Lyric mentioned, just had their heart broken, I don't think its right.  As the saying goes "To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world."  There is  always someone who cares about you whether someone realizes, or chooses to believe it or no.

I also have a question...if someone mentions that they want to kill themselves or something, I've heard that your supposed to call 911 right away, and they'll be taken to a psychiatric hospital.  What happens to the person there?  I imagine your given a battery of tests, and then your put in a hospital room or something?

[Kitten7]

Lyric, I just noticed you said you are a paramedic. I was also, years ago. In the classroom, training to be a paramedic, there were running jokes about every injury and illness known to man. The suicidal patient was one of the worst to have in your rig. I can see both sides of this. No one wants a suicidal, possibly combative person on their hands when their life hangs in the balance. Paramedics ar human too or so I've been told and it takes far  too long to get over the sight of someone who has tried to kill themselves.
On the other side of it, I have witnessed many paramedics being so heartless (maybe a protection mechinism) after a particulary gruesome run.
This isn't a question of who is right or wrong. It's a personal decision that only the one in that position can and should have a say in.

[Kitten7]

In a sense I do agree with the "assisted suicide" for extreme cases, such as 90-year-old person who can do nothing but lie in a bed all day, they can't eat except through a feeding tube, they can't talk and they have dementia, etc.  In that instance you know things aren't going to get better and its just a matter of time. 

 

Someone who is lonely and feels they have no friends or maybe perhaps, as Lyric mentioned, just had their heart broken, I don't think its right.  As the saying goes "To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world."  There is  always someone who cares about you whether someone realizes, or chooses to believe it or no.

I also have a question...if someone mentions that they want to kill themselves or something, I've heard that your supposed to call 911 right away, and they'll be taken to a psychiatric hospital.  What happens to the person there?  I imagine your given a battery of tests, and then your put in a hospital room or something?

That's what you hear, to call 911 and the ambulance and police will come. It isn't a great idea IF there are any other alternatives. Most police don't have the training necessary to deal with this issue. Some will even refuse to transport even if the person is pink papered. In this country, there really aren't good resources for the activly suicidal person. Unfortunately, we have to use what we have.

[Zwheels]

ems was here but they took him away in a cop car. i did not see him fight them but still they treated him ruffly. so i guess he will get help in jail. i thought that they send you to a hospital. i guess you shouldent tell anyone and just go and do it.