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[Kadee]

less caring about teaching manners and respect

Yes.  Parents are less concerned about being parents, and more concerned about being a friend.  Whether this is good or not is yet to be seen.

I have seen it first hand, this parnets being friends with their kids.  It is not a good thing, I repeat NOT A GOOD THING!!!!!  Case in point, one of my best friends, has bent over backwards to give her kid everything in the world to help her fit in with the popular crowd  :roll: , buys the most expensive clothes, all the gizmos and gadgets for talking to friends, rides whereever whenever the kid demands ( and oh yeah she demands rides), the list goes on and on.  Said friend has now given her barely 15 year old daughter permission to drink alcohol, but get this, only if she is going to a house party and staying the night  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:   with the opposite schecks attending  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:.  Hhm if that is not an invitation to tell your daughter to have sex, I don't know what is.  The child has now been arrested for being a minor in possesion of alcohol, and the mom made excuses for it, like it was the cops fault, way to teach your kid to respect authority and rules.    She does this so her daughter will like her ( how sad is that, I don't want my teens to like me, I want them deathly afraid to break my rules).  I love my friend, I really do, but when I think of what she is doing to her kid it sickens me.  And unfortunately she isn't the only one I know like this.  It's quite scary to me what we, as a society, are raising by allowing kids to behave this way.

[Tony C.]

(Don't over think it... Just know I am going around filters)

Ever wonder why advertisers use schecks to sell products that aren't very scheckshy?
Like Tires...

What does this schecks shells mentality and imagery do to the everyday public?

Why when in a world where schecks shells, do we allow our teenage daughters to wear sweat pants with the word "Juicy" written on the seat and this is okay...  Yet, when a parenting magazine comes out, with an image of a baby taking food, the same way other mammals nurse their young..  We get all upset and freaked out about this scheckshual body part being used for what it was made for?

Your thoughts?

Please read this with a lot of humor..   I know we've broached this before...  But this time I want to know more..  
I'm after the why did it begin and how does it affect us now?

OK...Here's something I want to throw out at ya's....Speaking of girls wearing sweats wwith the word "Juicy" on them....This was a MAN wearing this...My wife an I saw him walking down the street, and on his sweatshirt, in huge letters was the word "FILTH".  :shock:  What is THAT supposed to be? I wouldn't want or wear anyting of the sort myself...

[kae]

I think it sells due to the fact that we basically live our daily life fighting the inner urges to which it displays and appeals to.

It's not that it's subliminal (but it is..).  It's just calling out our inner drives, and giving us an 'acceptable' product or the like to exhibit it.   Even if the association is fruitless or illogical.

I wrote Dove when they started their any-woman-shape-size-etc campaign.  I think it's a marvelous idea.  Now, just to get the other 93849324034 companies to do the same...  :?


And when I was younger, I can't say I didn't wear things with more .. adult-tones to them.  And, it's just getting worse and younger.  I've come across 4-10 year olds with similar outfits for sale in my age range..

[Dr Sketch]

Kadee, think of it this way: teens WILL drink.  Teens WILL have schex.  If you don't believe me, think back to when you were in your teens.  How many of your friends were doing the same thing?  As a parent, why not just be honest with your kid, tell them you know that they are going to do it even if you tell them not to, so instead teach them to be safe in whatever they are doing?

As for being bad or not, I stand by what I said: I have yet to see any PROOF that the change in our society (because really, that's what we're talking about here) is good or bad.  I have seen a lot of people freak out because it is DIFFERENT from how they were brought up, but nobody has been able to point to any positive or negative effect it has had on society.  Sorry, but until someone can bring real statistics on it, I'm staying on the fence.

[Navi]

Kadee, think of it this way: teens WILL drink.  Teens WILL have schex.  If you don't believe me, think back to when you were in your teens.  How many of your friends were doing the same thing?  As a parent, why not just be honest with your kid, tell them you know that they are going to do it even if you tell them not to, so instead teach them to be safe in whatever they are doing?

I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching your kids to be safe, I'm sure Kadee will agree.

But I think if your kids know you condone it, they may be a little less likely to act in a safe manner. I'm not really basing this on any hard evidence, it just seems that way to me. I think a lot of people associate slightly risky behaviour with maturity so if you encourage your kids to have schecks or allow them to drink, there may be that one time they say "I don't think I really need a condom" or "he seems sober enough, he can drive me home." There are risks involved even if you think you're being "safe" and I think any parent with common sense would want to at least try to protect their kids from that as long as possible.

[kae]

But I think if your kids know you condone it, they may be a little less likely to act in a safe manner. I'm not really basing this on any hard evidence, it just seems that way to me. I think a lot of people associate slightly risky behaviour with maturity so if you encourage your kids to have schecks or allow them to drink, there may be that one time they say "I don't think I really need a condom" or "he seems sober enough, he can drive me home." There are risks involved even if you think you're being "safe" and I think any parent with common sense would want to at least try to protect their kids from that as long as possible.

Making children totally sheltered really isn't a good option.  I find that more kids who have no idea -- have it worse in due time.  They don't know about protection, they don't know about drugs, they don't... you get the picture.

To be honest, I was on drugs and drinking by the age of 13.  I've been smoking ciggs since I was about 12-13, too. I lost my virginity at 14.  Today, I don't use drugs.  I also drink VERY RARELY.  But to make a point, my parents told me nothing and sheltered me.  Basically, I met one friend.. and all these new things exploded into my world.  I had no real information to fall back on to think "don't do this."  I also didn't have a notion that my parents would actually talk with me about it -- I just lied to them and hid everything.. thinking "they won't understand," "they will ground me and keep me from seeing my friend," or "they will just yell."

Now, everyone's different.. but that's a nice view of what somewhat-shelthering can cause.  It's not definite to happen at that age, but at some point.. the child's life will .. "explode" into that world.  Having the right tools to make the best decisions.. would change everything.

[Navi]

Oh, I'm not saying sheltering is what everyone should do. I was sheltered too (still am, at 19 even) and it sucked. It just seemed like Dr Sketch was saying it's alright to let your kids do whatever the heck they want just because you think they're going to do it anyway, and I don't agree with that. If anything, people should be telling their 16 year olds not to drink just because it's the law, never mind the trouble they'll end up in.

[kae]

Oh, I'm not saying sheltering is what everyone should do. I was sheltered too (still am, at 19 even) and it sucked. It just seemed like Dr Sketch was saying it's alright to let your kids do whatever the heck they want just because you think they're going to do it anyway, and I don't agree with that. If anything, people should be telling their 16 year olds not to drink just because it's the law, never mind the trouble they'll end up in.

I realized I left out.. that more my point was that you shouldn't shelter and you also shouldn't encourage.  You should give the kids the tools and know-how.. and let them decide.  It's all you really can do.. sure  you could beat them, yell at them, lock them in a house,... but that really doesn't do anything more than more harm.

[bill door]

Speaking as someone who works with kids, the best way to get them to do something is to tell them that adults don't think it's a good idea.

Kids at my school occasionally 'confess' that they have been drinking, taking drugs, having sex and/or getting in trouble with the police. I always feel honoured that they thought I was worthy of their trust in telling me these things and I never tell them they've been wrong. I just try to offer them options for better choices in the future. But then again, these are other people's kids; I've not been fortunate enough to have any of my own......

[Dr Sketch]

It just seemed like Dr Sketch was saying it's alright to let your kids do whatever the heck they want just because you think they're going to do it anyway.

Yeah, I didn't phrase that very well, and didn't realize it until you pointed it out.  I don't think we should let kids do whatever they want, that would be horrible.  I just think that as parents we should realize our kids ARE going to do some of these things, and should plan accordingly by talking to them about it in advance.  Telling yourself that your kid will never drink is dangerous, because one day they will, and they will not have learned anything from you in advance.  On the other hand, if you have already spoken to them about it, they will at least have some forknowledge, even if they choose to ignore it.

[Kadee]

 
To be honest, I was on drugs and drinking by the age of 13.  I've been smoking ciggs since I was about 12-13, too. I lost my virginity at 14.  Today, I don't use drugs.  I also drink VERY RARELY.  But to make a point, my parents told me nothing and sheltered me.  Basically, I met one friend.. and all these new things exploded into my world.  I had no real information to fall back on to think "don't do this."  I also didn't have a notion that my parents would actually talk with me about it -- I just lied to them and hid everything.. thinking "they won't understand," "they will ground me and keep me from seeing my friend," or "they will just yell."

 .

Kae your teen years sound just like mine.  I too was sheltered and "overprotected" and as a result I was rebelous to the extreme.  And I did the same thing, I lied and snuck around, because I didn't think my parents would allow me to do things, like my friends,  boyfriends, or whatever I was doing.  And my mother would have never talked to me about schecks, drinking, drugs.  It was just something that was not taught to me or talked about.   Thankfully I turned out alright.  but it was a long hard road to get where I am now, because I wasn't taught anything useful in what to do if I was caught in a peer preasure situation, I didn't know I should say no, and that I could talk to my  parents about it.

I didn't mean to imply that I shelter my kids, in fact, I am very open and honest with the things they are going to come into contact with , such as the preassure of drinking, taking drugs, and having schecks.  I encourage them to talk to me about anything ( somethings I'm better off not knowing).  Alot of people would be shocked by what my kids say around me and talk to me about, but better them be open and ask then not know at all.  So far so good with my kids ( their 13 and 15) and it works for us, whether or not it would work for other parents I don't know.  I've had my share of trouble ( minor things but things they shouldn't be doing) with my kids, trust me their not angels, but when things pop up we talk, punish if necessary, and tell them what is right and what is wrong and how to handle situations they find themselves in.  

It's a corny saying, but Knoweledge Is Power, and if we teach our kids the tools they need ( like you said Kae) they should have a good base in which to make good decisions and know they have people to turn to if they find they don't know what to do.

[Dr Sketch]

... allow me to do things like my friends,  boyfriends, or whatever I was doing...

Hun, I knew what you MEANT to say, but that sounds really dirty...

[Kadee]

:oops:

[SouthOfHeaven]

... allow me to do things like my friends,  boyfriends, or whatever I was doing...

Hun, I knew what you MEANT to say, but that sounds really dirty...

haha, I noticed that too. Nice to see I'm not the only dirty minded person here :wink:


But about this overprotective thing... Speaking from personal experiances with friends, I've noticed that kids who are over protected tend to take the complete opposite direction. Meanwhile, the ones who were not over protected seemed to be better off. I was overprotected, and still am. I'm 18 years old and male, and I can't even spend the night at a friends house, or be out past 2 in the morning. But I ended up becoming one of those kids who did what they felt like, although my parents were always telling me not too. But the thing is, somehow there nagging and shit made me so cautious and observant. Like, me mom always warned me about drugs and alcohol, but this summer I became friends with a guy who did weed alot, and I would always smoke with him. But like, I was the only one who made sure everything was clear, that no one is around, that I don't get the smell on me. I knew I was told not to, but I figured that it would be fun anyway, and the only thing i actually have to worry about is being caught. Same with alcohol, she tells me it's bad, and how it could screw me up, but I'm not afraid of it, nor does that make me go out ang get drunk all the time, I just drink a little and know how to be responisble.

[Barbara]

I definitely agree with the over-protective thing...sure, not at kids take a 180 degree turn...but I have seen it happen to many who have been over-sheltered.  Balance is key.